If Jesus Died For Our Sins . . . How Did It Work?

The central belief of Christianity is that God sent his only son Jesus to die on the cross for us and by doing so freed the world from sin. But how does that work? How can, God, who does not have a physical form, have a son? How does Jesus’ death take away my sin? Especially as I had not even committed the sin at the time, nor had I even been born. How can one person save the whole world? If we are removed from sin, does that mean no one goes to Hell?

The strange thing about God is that nobody really knows who/what it is (which is why it is weird so many worship him). Sometimes it is given human features like emotions, a gender and speech. Humans are even supposedly made in God’s image. On the other hand God is often described as incorporeal (“without the nature of a body or substance”), particularly in debates regarding the creation of the universe. God is often described as not being subject to the laws of science as it does not have a physical or material existence. Neither of these make much sense, as God clearly is not human, as it posses powers that no human has. But what is the difference between a spirit that cannot be directly seen, heard, felt, or detected by any sense, any something that does not exist?

How could God have a son? Children are made from sex between a man and woman. Can God have sex? Does he have to necessary organs? Mary apparently was a virgin, so how did it happen? Perhaps God created Jesus like it created Adam and Eve, but then Jesus isn’t that special.

Christians are always telling me Jesus loves me and died for me. But how? I didn’t exist until 2,000 years later. How can Jesus love something that does not yet exist? How can you love something you don’t know or never met? How can you love everyone on the planet simultaneously? Surely that means that love isn’t that special. If everyone has it, then it’s as special as having a nose. How can you die for something? My grandparents died, not for anything, but just because they were old.

How did Jesus’ death take away sin? I can understand a person atoning for their own sins but how can you atone for someone else’s, let alone the whole worlds and all future generations? If my sins are washed does that mean I could do anything and not be punished in the afterlife? Does that mean no one goes to Hell? If it was only original sin that was removed, why did God give it to us in the first place? It’s not my fault Adam and Eve ate that apple, why would God punish the innocent? Does this not all amount to a human sacrifice?

Will someone Christian please explain this, because it does not make the least bit of sense?

About these ads

103 Comments

Filed under Religion

103 responses to “If Jesus Died For Our Sins . . . How Did It Work?

  1. It works because that’s how the story goes. ….I know, that’s not what you’re looking for, but at the end of the day, i do think that is how one best understand this stuff. It is story-telling, and it follows the conventions of storytelling, not logic, not physics, just storytelling.

    • Chippa

      Maybe, then its a fairytale, isn’t it? If the response is, “.. that’s how the story goes.” Sounds just like Cinderella or Beauty and the beast???

  2. Hi Robert, I am a Christian and will answer your questions from my perspective:

    The central belief of Christianity is that God sent his only son Jesus to die on the cross for us and by doing so freed the world from sin. But how does that work?
    – This answer lies is understanding the origins of the Jewish observance of Passover. Pre-Jesus, Judaism was the faith practice set forth by God through Abraham and Moses. A set of laws and regulations for the “Children of Israel” (i.e. Jews) to follow in order to attain righteousness and enter heaven. One criteria was an annual animal sacrifice to erase the past year’s sins from an individual’s spiritual account. Around 1441 BC, Egypt had captured and enslaved Israel. God sent ten plagues on Egypt to prove the existence and power of Israel’s god to the Egyptians. The tenth of these plagues was the instant death of every first born child in one night. To avoid this plague, the children of Israel were instructed (by God through Moses and Aaron) to cover the exterior door frames of their homes with a lamb’s blood, roast the lamb and eat it with unleavened bread and herbs, and not to have any leftover. When God passed by that night, taking the souls of every first born child, He would pass over the homes marked by the lamb’s blood. (Hence the name ‘Passover’) Jesus is often referred to as the “Lamb of God”, an allusion to the first Passover. When Jesus came around 1400 years after the original Passover was required, the “children of Israel” had wandered from God once again. A Passover sacrifice was needed to secure the “children of Israel’s” salvation once again. To end the cycle of failure caused by human nature, Jesus (in the relational position to God equivalent to a human father’s relationship to his son) offered himself as a final blood sacrifice to God, securing salvation for anyone who accepts His sacrifice is sufficient.

    How can, God, who does not have a physical form, have a son?
    -We get caught up in semantics on this point and create a lot of unnecessary confusion on this point. Is Jesus God’s son? Spiritually speaking, yes. Biologically, only as much as Eve is God’s daughter. Humans define father-son relationships two ways; biologically or adoptively. Jesus being God’s son is meant to reference how close his relationship to God (our father) is. Biologically, Mary was Jesus’ mother. However, his conception was an act of divine creation, not biological fertilization. Adam was created from dust on dry land. Eve was created from Adam’s rib, on dry land. Jesus in physical carbon form was created in Mary’s womb. I would assume using Mary’s egg, but only because that’s all my small my can conceive!
    The ‘how’ matters less than the ‘where’ in this case, prophetically speaking. The Messiah spoken of in ancient Jewish prophecy required being born from a virgin; a prophetic detail difficult for any potential imposter to replicate! By fulfilling every messianic prophecy, Jesus exists as the human extension of God.

    How does Jesus’ death take away my sin?
    -God is love, light, goodness, and so on; nothing opposite of God can exist in the presence of God (i.e. hate, dark, evil, etc.). What that means for us is we cannot exist in the presence of God because human nature. I find it easier to understand this way: God is ultimate selflessness, human nature is ultimate selfishness; these two philosophies cannot coexist (one cannot be simultaneously selfless and selfish) which separates us from God.
    When you get right down to it, the root of every sin is selfishness. As I just explained, selfishness is opposite to God, which is how it separates us from Him.

    Acknowledging Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection as required, adequate, and ultimately covering our life with enough selflessness to exist in the same room as God is how sin is removed. Tantamount to the lamb’s blood over the door frames of enslaved Israelites in 1441 BC. Accepting Jesus’ sacrifice is evidenced through living your life by the morals and principles He taught by example; complete selflessness.

    Especially as I had not even committed the sin at the time, nor had I even been born. How can one person save the whole world?

    -To best explain this, we have to look at the concept of time. The human mind perceives time in the form of minutes, days, months, years, etc. God created time, He did not just set it in motion. Now imagine a timeline. When you look at a timeline, you see the beginning, the end, and everything in between simultaneously. The periods noted on the timeline understand time only by their period, the days and years in which they existed. We can comprehend the days we are alive and can grasp the concept of “past” through the study of history. God (and thereby Jesus) views the entire timeline at once. What we perceive as past present and future, God sees as “now”.
    This gets into a sticky concept of predisposition and free will; if God sees the entire timeline and knows the future, does that mean every decision we make has already been made for us? I equate God’s knowledge to the author of a “choose your own adventure” book the author (God) knows every possible outcome, but the choice of which page to turn to next is up to the reader (us).

    If we are removed from sin, does that mean no one goes to Hell?

    -No. The only ones “removed from sin” are those who have accepted Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection, devoting themselves to living as selflessly as possible. Anyone who has not embraced Jesus as covering for their selfish nature will “go to hell” (hell being eternal isolation from God) because, as I explained above, selfishness and selflessness cannot simultaneously exist.

    Robert, you asked honest questions, so I gave you my honest answers, I think our shared goal is understanding. I did not respond to convince you to change your beliefs (although I do hope you become a Christian someday :)), proselytize to your readers, or spark any theological debates. I hope this helps you understand the Christian perspective to your questions.

    Peace.

    • Thank for taking the time and effort to respond, and its some response. Its far too long detailed to give a full response to myself, but thank anyways, its good to hear the other side. I wouldn’t say I agree with your points, but thank you for giving fair and honest answer

      • Jayson

        One way to understand the meaning of the death of Jesus is to imagine a courtroom scene in which we are on trial for our sins and God is the judge. Our sins against God are capital crimes. God Himself is our judge, and according to divine law our crimes deserve the death penalty. Death, in a spiritual sense, means eternal separation from God in unending torment. That’s a very serious judgment. By shedding His blood on the cross, Jesus took the punishment we deserve and offered us His righteousness. When we trust Christ for our salvation, essentially we are making a trade. By faith, we trade our sin and its accompanying death penalty for His righteousness and life. In theological terms, this is called “substitutionary atonement.” Christ died on the cross as our substitute. Without Him, we would suffer the death penalty for our own sins. Here are a few verses that explain this concept: He [God] made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Corinthians 5:21) And while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. (1 Peter 2:23-24) Surely our griefs He Himself bore,And our sorrows He carried;Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,Smitten of God, and afflicted.But He was pierced through for our transgressions,He was crushed for our iniquities;The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,And by His scourging we are healed. (Isaiah 53:4-5) The writer to the Hebrews puts it this way: “And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22). For God to forgive our sins, His judgment had to be satisfied and that required the shedding of blood. Some object, “Shedding blood seems so barbaric. Is it really necessary? Why doesn’t God simply forgive us?” Because God is holy, He must judge sin. Would a just and righteous judge let evil go unpunished? At the cross, God poured out His judgment on His Son, satisfying His wrath and making it possible for Him to forgive us. That’s why Jesus shed His blood for your sins, my sins, and the sins of the whole world. At what moment during the crucifixion ordeal did God pour out His judgment on His precious Son? Many theologians believe it was toward the end of the three-hour period of darkness when Jesus cried out: “‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’” (Mark 15:34). By taking upon Himself the sins of the world, Jesus removed Himself from God’s holy presence, and God, in turn, removed Himself from His Son. It was a temporary but excruciating separation, for at that moment, the Son of God became Father-forsaken. God unleashed His wrath on His Son so that we might be spared that awful fate. This is the central message of the cross and the reason for our hope: God forsook His Son so that He might never forsake us. God assures us, “‘I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you” (Hebrews 13:5). Isn’t that a wonderful promise? Have you placed your trust in Jesus Christ as the substitute for your sin? Do you believe that Jesus died for you in order to give you eternal life and that He rose from the dead victorious over sin? If not, we encourage you to receive Jesus as your Savior right now. You can express your desire in a prayer like this: Lord Jesus, I know I am a sinner. I believe You died for my sins and rose again. I trust in You as my Savior now. Forgive me of my sins, and make me into the kind of person You would have me to be. Thank You for your gift of eternal life. Amen. If you truly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, you have eternal life. You can rest in that truth. The apostle John has written: “And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life” (1 John 5:11-12). When you have the Son of God, the Lord Jesus, you have eternal life. – See more at: http://www.insight.org/resources/articles/how-to-know-god/death-of-jesus-saves.html?l=sin#sthash.NeJsuSnU.dpuf

        • Imagine you’re in court and I appear before the judge and say not to punish you its all my fault. So far so good. But then if I say that you should not only go unpunished for this crime, but for all crimes you’ve ever committed including those you haven’t even committed yet. Also, you’re children are forgiven, even those not yet born for things they haven’t done. Also all your relatives and friends and everyone. Would that not be a bit strange?

          Especially if in exchange for that, I would be executed but only remain dead for a day and a half.before I come back alive as though nothing had happened. Not much of a sacrifice is it?

          “Some object, “Shedding blood seems so barbaric. Is it really necessary? Why doesn’t God simply forgive us?” Because God is holy, He must judge sin. Would a just and righteous judge let evil go unpunished? At the cross, God poured out His judgment on His Son, satisfying His wrath and making it possible for Him to forgive us.”

          You say God must punish and sin and cannot let evil go untouched, but this is exactly what you are claiming will happen. I can commit whatever evil I want and its covered by God. Because Jesus suffered, everyone else can be evil and sinful and they will go unpunished. Are Jesus and God not the one according to the Trinity? Is Jesus not punishing himself to satisfy his own judgement and save the world from his own wrath?

          Why would God possibly accept the sacrifice of Jesus as necessary? Being dead for a day and a half isn’t that bad. How can the sins of the whole world be carried by one person? How does any of that make sense?

          • Jayson

            “How does that make any sense?” It wouldn’t to you because you have chosen not to. If one believed in the existence of God then it would be much easier to understand less question. I read how you came about your journey out of christian belief and how easy it was for you. I can conclude by this that you never did accept Jesus in your life. You seek proof and explanation in all your posts but do you desire it? If you are already leaning towards denying Christ’s existence, then this evidence would not be sufficient to you. I too have many questions that i believe can not be answered by any human being. If you have once believed in God then you would realize that the mind of a human being can not surmount to that of God and how he works because you would know that he is greater. This is my final post to you because you are tainted by lack of desire. I’m no scholar graduate nor do i have a masters degree of any sort, but i do know through personal experience when someone is wasting their own time. Guess you’ll find out your answers some day.

            Is there proof that Jesus existed?
            by Matt Slick
            “There are different definitions for proof. There are proofs in mathematics and logic. There is proof that you love someone. Proof is sometimes based on evidence, reasoning, certification, facts, or reasonable demonstration of the truth, but to prove that a historical figure existed is very difficult. Basically, the best we can do is provide evidence and leave it up to the individual to consider whether or not the evidence is sufficient. That is what we do with the whole of historical figures like Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, King George III, etc. People have no problem believing they existed, but when it comes to Jesus, suddenly a different standard is offered. Even though the historical evidence for Plato and Aristotle is in written form – and people have no problem with that – when it comes to the same standard for Jesus, many people won’t accept it. Why the double standard?

            I get different answers from different people when I ask them what would be sufficient evidence that Jesus existed. No two answers have ever been the same. Many ask for the impossible, like a film or a lab experiment. Some have asked me to prove Jesus existed without using the Bible. For many, they want objective proof that will satisfy their personal preferences. That is the problem.

            How do we prove a historical person existed beyond any doubt? Can we prove that Alexander the Great, or Plato, or Socretes all existed? All we have are ancient manuscripts that mention them and claim to be copies of copies of their writings. Yet, most people don’t have any problem believing they existed. However, when it comes to Jesus, suddenly things are different. I have never once encountered an atheist who argues that Alexander the Great, Plato, and Socrates never existed. It is only Jesus whom they attack as a historical figure. Why? I believe it is because of the claims of Christ, as recorded in the Gospels, are so incredible that atheists must reject Christ altogether. Alexander the Great and Plato don’t challenge their atheism. Jesus does.
            But back to the topic. What is the evidence?

            The evidence is primarily the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) and the various epistles written by those who claim to have been with Christ, i.e., Romans, Hebrews, James, Jude, etc.

            Still, some will say these documents are not reliable or they are fabrications, written too long after the fact. Therefore, they don’t constitute proof. Even though it’s difficult to argue with someone’s ignorance and fervent belief when denying Christ, it doesn’t mean we can’t present some basic evidence.

            First of all, New Testament documents were written shortly after the life of Christ. Jesus died around the year 33 A.D. The book of Acts, for example, is a history book of the early church. It does not record the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., nor does it record the deaths of Peter and Paul which occurred around 60 A.D. Why would such incredibly important events not be recorded in a book that deals with documenting significant events in the early Christian church? The most logical answer is that the book of Acts was written before they occurred. That puts the book’s date around 60 A.D. or prior. This is significant because Luke wrote the book of Acts, and the gospel of Luke was written prior to Acts. So, maybe that was around 55 A.D. The book of Matthew was written before the book of Luke. Maybe that was around 50 A.D. Mark was written earlier than that, maybe 45 A.D. Jesus was crucified in 33 A.D. That means there was about a 12 year gap between the event and when it was first recorded. Plus, the apostles were all still around when Mark, Luke, and Matthew were written, and we have no record anywhere of the disciples who were then living saying the Gospels were incorrect in any way.

            In addition, the Gospel accounts are very accurately transmitted from then to now. Let me illustrate something. When a Gospel was written, it was copied very carefully by scribes. Their living depended on their accuracy and competency in making copies. These copies would be disseminated throughout the Mediterranean area. So, for example, one copy of the gospel of Matthew was sent to one area, and another copy was sent somewhere else hundreds and hundreds of miles away. Then copies of those copies would be made with the same meticulous precision. Archaeologists have uncovered thousands of such copies, and they have compared them. The New Testament documents are better than 99.5% textually pure. That means less than one half of 1% of the copies, 5000 of them, have any textual variation in their copying. That is incredible and far more accurate than anything dealing with Plato, Socrates, etc.
            So, is this evidence sufficient to demonstrate reasonably that Christ existed? It depends on the person’s presuppositions. But if another person was open to the historical evidence and did not have a leaning either way, the evidence can be easily sufficient.
            We can’t prove absolutely that Jesus existed, but we can give sufficient evidence, the biblical Gospels, to show that he was an actual historical figure. It’s up to you to decide whether or not you accept or reject the evidence. Once you do that, then you have to face what Jesus said about himself in the Gospels.”

            God bless and good luck in your ventures.

            • “It wouldn’t to you because you have chosen not to. If one believed in the existence of God then it would be much easier to understand less question.”

              Maybe its the other way around. Maybe the reason I don’t believe is because it doesn’t make any sense. Did you even consider that maybe you might be biased? That perhaps the reason you find it so convincing is that you already believe? Or is confirmation bias only a trait of Atheists?

              “I read how you came about your journey out of christian belief and how easy it was for you. I can conclude by this that you never did accept Jesus in your life.”

              There was five years between my leaving the Church and becoming an Atheist. Hardly a quick on and easy transition of someone who never believed in the first place.

              “This is my final post to you because you are tainted by lack of desire.”

              Emm, ok . . . .

              You then proceed to copy paste an article on a side issue (I never said Jesus didn’t exist). I’m not going to point out the problems in the article (for which there are many), but just say that it misses the crucial point that Jesus can do anything. So to compare him to Julius Caesar is wrong because Jesus is not an ordinary human, but God. Extraordinary claims demands extraordinary evidence.

              • robert, you ask good questions. christianity cannot answer those questions. that is the fact.

                when christianity tries to answer those questions, it raises more questions which it has to answer. then it becomes hopelessly entangled in its own maze of unanswerable questions.

                christianity is a belief system built like a house of cards. remove one card and the whole house falls.

                answer: look around you, what do you see? what does it look like it means?

                read what jesus said. don’t add anything to it. make your own judgements about what it means.

                and read what others have said. compare.

                you will come up with something different and more satisfying than christianity,

                • Brian

                  Dr. Tony, I agree with you. Modern Christianity cannot answer the questions, relying instead in complex grammar, emotional acrobatics and, of course, ‘you were never really a Christian’ statements.

                  All this is in an effort to not say that the origin of sin lies with their Creator. It is quite simple, really. Christianity says we are created in the image and likeness of God. God is pure and distilled good with no speck of evil. If there is only good, then ‘free will’ can only result in good and obedience. So how did the disobedience come about? Answer: back to the source. Christians always avoid tainting God with anything other than 100% good. The problem with that is Sin, by definition, must exist outside God. If God did not create it, then it stands to reason that something did, something outside of God’s creation and therefore control. This calls into question the title of Omnipotent and/or Omniscient.

                  According to Christianity, everything God has ever done is good and must not be questioned. In truth, this should be rewritten as: everything that has been reported that God has ever done should not be questioned (to avoid His Wrath etc). It is sad that we are supposed to know this God intimately but must do so in such a way not to arouse His Anger. That is not love, that is Fear.

                  Christianity’s central belief, being that God sent Himself/Jesus to die on the cross so we can be forgiven (upon acceptance of this sacrifice, and upon following or not following some rules made by your local pastor’s interpretation of scripture) of sins that have refused to leave our DNA even after God wiped out the planet and left Noah and his supposedly righteous family, is simply that – a belief. We should accept that it is difficult to make someone change his belief. It is what tides him through difficult times. It helps him understand and operate in the world. And strangely enough, it compels the Universe to act accordingly.

                  I believe in God. I believe there was/is Jesus. But I also believe that the stories I have been fed all my life are not that cut and dried. After all, Jesus did say that when a certain fellow planted good seeds, some idiot planted bad seeds with them. Sadly, the direction was to let both grow until harvest time. Unless God formally announces to the world that He is disappointed with the way we are behaving and we have one week to prove our loyalty to Him (and perhaps Jesus), these arguments on Original Sin, the need for Jesus and the absolute Goodness of God will continue.

            • T M

              Jayson, I believe in God–I always have, but I must admit none of this makes sense and does sound ridiculous. Not fair for you to tell Rob he chose not to believe. I don’t believe you choose to believe. I have chosen to try and believe in some of the concepts of Jesus sacrifice and atonement but do not believe these aspects because they just sound ridiculous and make zero sense. I almost wonder if it’s just a story with metaphors etc to teach a point. Once again, I DO believe in God, but don’t know how to believe some of the ridiculous things such as how one person’s death saves the rest of the world. I also believe Jesus did die etc and don’t doubt God could’ve raised him from the dead, but do not believe or disbelieve it saved all of his followers by erasing their sins–that just makes no sense at all.

        • T M

          that sounds so ridiculous. doesn’t make any sense at all. I’d like to believe if that is what God wants me to do, but this all sounds pretty crazy to me…..God unleashed His wrath on His Son so that we might be spared that awful fate. This is the central message of the cross and the reason for our hope: God forsook His Son so that He might never forsake us. God assures us, “‘I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you” (Hebrews 13:5)

          • Chippa

            TM, there other interesting fact is that, on the cross, why does Jesus ask God why He has forsaken him? Wasn’t this the plan all along? I find it really interesting that when he is going through what he should have prepared himself for, he suddenly questions why he is forsaken? Its like, “Hey! What is happening here? This was not how we agreed it will go down?”

            • truth

              There are eternal laws that cant be broken.. God cant undo what he has said.He is just it will be defying himself.His very nature..The consequences of sin is eternal death..lucifer was kicked out of the heavens bcos he rebelled against God for creating man…when eve sinned she also got kicked out too…God cant have one treatment for man and a different one for lucifer..Both were subject to eternal death brought by sin.Hence Jesus dying to create a new avenue for eternal life!!!

              • Brian

                truth, can you point out where you got this ‘consequence of sin is ETERNAL death’ from?? I have heard ‘consequence of sin is death’ but I must have missed the ‘eternal’ bit. Scripture??

                • truth

                  Hi its the same scripture the consequence of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. I imagine if the life is eternal so is the death.

                  The life/death of the soul…matt 10:28 says dont fear man that can just kill your body but fear God who can also kill your soul….

                  • Brian

                    Agreed. But the ‘eternal death’ bit is not there. It seems it is an assumption, like a ‘complete the sentence’ assumption. Where scripture says:

                    ‘Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell…,’

                    it says nothing about eternal death being the consequence of sin. It seems to say hell is a place where both can be destroyed (not where they will eternally burn) This leads me back to the original question. Is there actual scripture that says the consequence of sin is eternal death?

            • correct, jesus was human and was denying his creator on the cross.

          • if god cannot forsake us, then he denies his own nature by forsaking his son. and “god cannot deny his own nature” (james). go figure.

    • Wow! That’s a very detailed and useful response for anyone who doesn’t have the theological background to understand Christian customs and beliefs. I would even suggest that there are a lot of Christians who do not have as deep an understanding of their own beliefs as you do!

      I didn’t know the story of the original “passover”; that’s very interesting. It definitely adds to the symbolism of Jesus dying on the cross.Thank you so much for sharing, and thank you for being respectful to those of us who do not share your beliefs. Although I do not believe in a spiritual sense, I find religion quite fascinating from a cultural/historical sense (not only Christian, but all religions), and I find that too often asking questions from outside a Faith is met with skepticism and resistance. Yours is a very refreshing attitude!

      • brandon

        Thats actually the kind of attitude you should feel from him. Hes a real person of faith whatever faith he chooses. Too bad these types of christians dont exist around my area anymore.

    • brandon

      I would like to thank you for attempting to answer a question thats seems hard to find am answer for. I asked someone the same exact question on facebook and instead of helping me find an anwser and understand it they deleted my question. If they couldnt explain it then thats fine but i felt as if they may have gotten offended. But my intentions were not to offend as well i made sure to say not to offend jus curious. But whats so
      interesting is that this question was posted on a facebook page created for Christians. I think jesus would have helped me find and understand it though. But again sir thank u. You showne what jesus woild have done. The complete opposite of what they did. You gave the best answer you could and tried to explain to where one can have a little more understanding about the question. Thank you again.

    • Benjamin Joseph

      Thanks for the amazing answers.. thanks a lot. Because I was too looking for this answers..

    • Cherie

      Most people seem to feel questions like these are just prideful attempts at putting down Christians. But if you want a church that will actually help you learn “the bible ” and not some interpretation then go to the independent baptist church . The very first sermon you hear will tell you if you found a good one or not because you will only hear the bible from the pulpit, and you will never hear them wasting time naming people that disagree with them or even putting down bad pastors. All you will learn is the bible

      • Well, as I live in Ireland, I don’t believe there are any Independent Baptists nearby for me to visit. However, what does it say that rather than challenging my question, you instead pass me off to someone else? Is it a question no ordinary Christian can answer? Must you study years before you can get your head around this mystery?

    • Cherie

      Wonderful.
      Thank you dear Fello for taking the time to teach the whole thing.
      You did an amazing job.

    • robert perry

      all you say is true. Bless you. i am a sinner tempted daily with the addiction of alcohol and cigarettes. nightly i pray for the Lords forgiveness and i ask in prayer to repent my sins. i know that Jesus died for our sins one said to Jesus where is your father and Jesus said for those who have seen me have seen my father.(if i pray or say wrong please forgive me) . love your enemy love your neighbor. moses went to pharoh and said let his people go and it took 10 times before he released the slaves. water stood in the way of there freedom and by Gods mighty hands parted the waters. moses was told to go to God and with the finger of God wrote his comandments in stone. I read passages of the bible. mathew chapter 25 versus 1 thru 13 or revelation capter 20 verse 4. Praise the Lord our father in heaven.

      • Thank you, Robert, I’m glad you were able to connect with my response. I appreciate the demons you wrestle with and would like to encourage you by sharing my understanding of God’s forgiveness. God does not desire for you to cry out in shame for forgiveness every night, nor is He fooled by a cycle of “repentance” from the day’s decisions only to be repeated the next. His desire is for you to acknowledge where you fall short and accept forgiveness, then repent by choosing to intentionally and daily work to avoid that which required you to be forgiven.

        Please do not read this and feel I belittle the significance of any type of addiction. I understand releasing the grasp from a chemical, physical, or emotional dependency is a long and painful process. God is a connected, understanding god who wants to empower you to free yourself from those addictions by navigating the process with you. Choosing the life of freedom through humble empathy toward your neighbor through God paves the pathway to freedom from addiction. This is forgiveness. Living each day so that other’s lives are made better because of yours, this is repentance.

        The key to God freeing Israel by way of the Red Sea in mid 1350 BC was brought about by two significant decisions. One, Moses believed in the cause God gave him and would not take ‘no’ for an answer from the Pharaoh. Secondly, the Israelites moved forward in their Exodus before the sea was parted. Neither had guarantees their work would bring reward, they both only had faith.

        Blessings to you, Robert, and may God be with you on your journey!

    • Keith Nisbet

      Wonderful response that if one makes the same effort to ponder and digest as you have in writing it, has the potential to change ones life. Thanks for your effort.

      • Thank you, Keith. Changing one’s life for the betterment of another’s; that’s Christianity in a nutshell. Perhaps a few will consider my explanation and be inspired.

  3. If you befieve the Nicene Creed as established at the first council of Nicaea, it works like this:

    god sacrificed himself to himself to please himself so that we may be saved from him and his judgement.

  4. Good questions, Robert! These things confound me any time I think about Christianity. It’s interesting stuff, whether you are a believer or not (I’m not). And I’ve always approached religious texts in much the same way as I would approach folklore and mythology. As suggested by danielwalldammit, it’s easier to wrap your head around them if you take them with a little grain of story-telling salt.

    These stories are not literal truth, in my opinion, but a culture’s symbolic understanding of the world around them. Although I think that Faith might be necessary to fully appreciate the depth of symbolism in Jesus’ sacrifice, even from an outsider’s perspective we can appreciate the scope of these beliefs.

    • Thanks for the comment, I’m glad you found it interesting

    • Cherie

      Dear soul these things are true. There is one GOD. HE created you. HE loves you. HE wants you with HIM for ever. HE is calling you or you would not even be reading these things. I pray you come to understand very soon. Because dear heart you don’t have a soul you are a soul, and its up to you where your soul spends eternity.

      • How do you know its true? What reason do you have to believe?

        • kkfayeim

          How do you know that it’s not true?
          Your heart has been callused by lies.
          The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.
          The thing is….I don’t know it’s true. I don’t know how this beautiful world came into be. I just trust and have faith that there is a “Supreme Being” out there who knows what He is doing and loves me enough to create me and give me another day to live even though I curse His name daily.

          • Chippa

            If the supreme being does not provide enough evidence on these matters, how can he judge anyone for not “believing”? That makes him a really petty being, with an ego problem. If this supreme being does exist, I hope he is nothing like the one described in the bible. That is a mean, genocidal, petty, jealous, homophobic, egotistic being I would hate to spend eternity with, if such a state does exist.

            • truth

              God is a spirit. If you are looking for evidence of his existence you need to get connected by seeking him spiritually….making some time to pray to him and seek him..This has worked for me and I have experienced him in the most crazy way…

    • Keith Nisbet

      For anyone really interested in making a more than cursory analysis of the validity of the Christian World View check out William Lane Craig’s site: http://www.Reasonablefaith.org. More specifically his Defenders series podcast. A thorough course in Christian Apologetics and Systematic Theology. It’s free but University Level.

  5. A Muslim friend of mine asked me once, “If you believe that Jesus was God, doesn’t that take away from the meaning of his sacrifice?” Got me thinking. You can go ’round and ’round trying to figure out the meaning and purpose of the crucifixion, especially if you take the biblical accounts literally and subscribe to traditional Christian interpretations of Jesus’s nature.

    If you view Jesus as an historical figure, a man who believed he was the Messiah and lived in devotion to that ideal, to his God and to mankind, it casts a different light on his sacrifice. I don’t think he believed he was God. He lived as he did because he knew it was right and necessary, knowing that it would lead to his death.

    Which doesn’t answer your question, of course. I would say that it is the wrong question. He didn’t die to wash away our sins. He died because of our sins, as a lesson to us about our own inhumanity, and as an example of what we can be.

    • Jayson

      It is written who ever has seen Jesus has seen the Father. John 10:30; I and the Father are one.He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!. The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15) Even the devil knew Jesus was the son of God Luke 4:1-13

  6. plasso design gave a very good answer so I’m just going to tackle those he missed.

    “what is the difference between a spirit that cannot be directly seen, heard, felt, or detected by any sense, any something that does not exist?”

    That can be easily answered if you believe numbers exist. We can’t see them, feel them or detect them with our senses. We can see that there are two cups or three plates, but we can’t see the number 2 or 3. Another way is to think that even if we can’t sense God, we can see what he does. we can look at the world around us and judge that it needs a creator and designer. I believe science works in that way too. You infer the existence of something you have not yet observed from what you do observe in the same way the existence of the god particle was inferred from other phenomena when it had not been observed.

    There is also a little problem with the question. What we know is that we have not seen, heard or felt God, not that he cannot be seen, heard or felt. As Christians, we hope to hear him someday.

    “How can Jesus love something that does not yet exist? How can you love something you don’t know or never met?”

    Well, obviously you exist now so Jesus can love you. Are you assuming that Jesus only existed for the 33 or so years he was on earth? Christianity teaches that he has always existed (although he only took human form a limited time ago) and will always exist. He may not have loved you when you didn’t exist, but he does love you now. He knows you.

    “How can you love everyone on the planet simultaneously?” That doesn’t sound very farfetched to me. I love a lot of people – my family is made up of more than one person – so you can obviously love more than one person at a time. I do not see why there should be a limit to the number of people you can love.

    “Surely that means that love isn’t that special. If everyone has it, then it’s as special as having a nose.”
    I’m not sure what that is supposed to imply. I love all my siblings. The love that Jesus has for all of us does not decrease in intensity as the number of people increases. He loves each of us enough to die for us. In fact, he did die for us. That leads us to the next question.

    “How can you die for something? My grandparents died, not for anything, but just because they were old.”

    Well, if my house got robbed and the thief threatened to kill my mom, but I offer to take her place and he kills me instead, I died for my mom. This is not the same situation, but you get my point.

    “How did Jesus’ death take away sin? I can understand a person atoning for their own sins but how can you atone for someone else’s, let alone the whole worlds and all future generations?”

    “He personally carried our sins in his body on the cross so that we can be dead to sin and live for what is right. By his wounds you are healed.” – 1 peter 2: 24
    “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” – 2 corinthians 5: 21

    Jesus was able to pay for our sins because he took them first, becoming the guilty one and making us innocent, so that he could then bear the just punishment for them. I don’t the exact mechanism by which this was done or how the time thing works. There are lots of speculations, of course and I would be happy to find one of the theories for you. In fact, there is one right here: Be warned, however. It is loooong.

    “If my sins are washed does that mean I could do anything and not be punished in the afterlife?”
    Your sins are only washed away if you choose to turn away from them and do the right thing, turn to Jesus and accept the sacrifice he made for you. This implies, of course, that you don’t wish to continue doing them. If you want to continue doing them, then you still aren’t saved. So, no, you can’t do whatever you like because wanting to do whatever you like is a sign that your sins haven’t been washed away.

    “If it was only original sin that was removed, why did God give it to us in the first place? It’s not my fault Adam and Eve ate that apple, why would God punish the innocent?”

    Unfortunately, I cannot answer that question because I do not subscribe to the version of original sin you seem to be asking about. I do not believe that God punishes us for the sins of adam and Eve, but for our own sins. However, I could try to find someone who believes it to explain it, if you want. You have obviously done some wrong things in your life, so you are not innocent, anyway. We humans tend to go the wrong way as a rule.

    “Does this not all amount to a human sacrifice?”
    The way I think of it, human sacrifice is wrong because a person is killed for no justifiable reason. In this case, however, Jesus willingly takes our sins and becomes guilty for us, then takes the punishment we should have taken. That is demonstrably different from the previous case.

    I can summarize the main point of Christianity as follows.

    1. We are sinners, we have broken the law, God’s law and justice demands that we be punished.
    2. God, because he loves us so much, sends his son to save us.
    3. Jesus does this by taking our sin on himself, becoming the guilty one, our substitute, and making us legally innocent and free from punishment.
    4. This substitution thing only works if both people agree to it, so each individual has to accept Jesus’ sacrifice.
    5. Those who refuse to, do not believe they need the sacrifice, do not believe that God even exists, in the first place obviously cannot benefit from it. So, they face justice just like they would have done without Jesus.

    I hope that helps you and I think it is very good of you to try to understand it.

    • Thanks for such a detailed reply and for addressing each of my points in turn. Let me try and respond.

      Numbers don’t exist. They are abstract concepts we use to describe things that do exist, like several plates. It is possible that the world has a designer (though not necessary) but this does not mean it is God as we know him or that any of the Bible is true.

      You seem to view love as a limitless quantity. However I doubt you can love more than one man or woman at a time, which is why marriage is between 2 people. Love gets diluted the more people you add to it. You can love one person completely or a few sort of.

      Regarding your house thief methaphor, you may have died for your mom but not for all your family or humankind. Jesus did not take anyone’s place (except possibly Barrabas) so he can’t of died for anyone.

      Now correct me if I’m wrong but you seem to suggest that so long as you accept Jesus your sin is forgiven and you go to Heaven regardless of the life you lived. Likewise no matter how good a life they live, all non-Christians go to Hell. This is disgraceful as it allows murders and all sorts of criminals into Heaven, while good people who had the misfortune of being born into the wrong religion suffer eternal torture.

      • Well, of course there is a difference between the love I have for my siblings and the love I have for a spouse. I can love more than one sibling without the love being any less. In books, people seem to be able to love more than one person at a time, but who knows? I do think Eros can only actually be between two people but I could hardly defend it.

        Yes, in my example, I have only died for one person. I used it as an example of how someone can die for someone else. The Biblical witness is that Jesus died for all of us. I don’t expect you to believe it of course, I just expect you to understand that Christianity teaches that. Like here for instance.
        “You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. ” – Romans 5: 6 – 8

        Is your question perhaps that you cannot see where it actually happens that Jesus takes our place, despite the fact that the Bible says he did?

        For your final question, the key thing seems to be your understanding of a human being’s status as ‘good’ depending on what they do. Christianity does not teach that. It teaches that we are all sinners. We have all done things for which we deserve God’s punishment. The difference between the murderer who repents and asks God for help and the other person who has never committed murder is that the murderer repents and asks for God’s help and forgiveness. True repentance counts for a lot.

        Also, Christianity teaches that people who weren’t born to Christian parents can know about God from the world he has created and from the knowledge of his law that he has put in their minds (ala Romans 1:18 – 20). This means that a person born to non-christian parents is not condemned to not knowing God. The person can still find God is s/he truly seeks him. You should be able to see this. You have left the religion you were born into.

        In summary,
        1. There are no good people. we are all sinners.
        2. Those who confess their sins, turn from them and accept Jesus’ sacrifice are the saved ones. This is true for everyone.

        The problem here is not that some good people go to hell because of their religion and some bad people go to heaven. The problem is that there are no good people and we are all headed for hell. And those who accept God’s offer of salvation meet him.

      • Keith Nisbet

        At the end of the a day the reality of the Christian Faith is evidenced by its positive impact on individuals lives. I do enjoy the philosophical discussions ( by the way Dr. Craig is releasing a book on “God and Abstract Objects” in the coming year.) but it is much simpler than that.

  7. Pingback: On Original Sin | Ferlans

  8. jasper

    So all the African babies that die of malnutrition and disease at 3 months old go straight to hell? All my Buddhist friends will go to hell? A murderer that repents is more deserving of eternal life than people who are struggling to survive, and find no comfort in an abstract “Christ”?
    Anyways, I have already long fought the tireless battle against the logic of organized religion, especially Christianity. I believe in God, not in stupid arguments as to who may or may not be “saved”. If there is an afterlife, everyone is going to the same place. To anyone who is a skeptic of religion and/or the logic of Christianity, stop trying to ask Christians for logical answers – you will only be disappointed with quotes from the bible again and again. Conclusion, God may or may not be real – can’t be proved or disproved. Christianity is 100% human-made and God has nothing to do with it.

    • LLOYD NJIKHO

      what you are saying is long or the one who explained to you . where did you get that concept? obviously, not from the bible because if you read Romans 2 and 3 those who died without the knowledge of Christ or God will be judged differently as compared to those who have had the knowledge. so your sweeping statement s are out of question here. we all know that there are others who have died without the knowledge of God and it will be unjust for God to judge them as though they knew His requirements

  9. Brad

    Jesus was THE man, a man above all others, but we was crucified by a bunch of pompous lunatic pricks. He took it like a man of all men, but he didn’t choose to be crucified, nor choose to sacrifice himself for our sake…. it’s in the HOW he went about being to object of such evil, and for that we should praise and honour him whole-heartedly, but it seems to me that the addage “well he died for your sins” has to do more with mollifying the murderer’s guilt and passing the guilt down the line. No wonder Christianity is so much about atonement and forgiveness, it’s implicit in the fact that we killed the savior himself! They didn’t just murder him, they put him on a couple of 4×4 s, placed him way up high as if to mock him right in front of his own God! No wonder the guilt! And what a brilliant way to project the guilt … ‘oh, well you see he died for your sins!” rubbish

  10. Maroun Mounayar

    Hello all,

    If anyone here would like proof of God’s existence and proof the bible is His word, please read the Magic Man in the Sky by Carl Gallups (link below to Amazon). Also http://www.y-jesus.com is a great website.

    Thank you and may God lead you to the Truth.

    Maroun

  11. Pingback: 10 Questions For Christians | Robert Nielsen

  12. Nice reply Plasso, but when you think about it, it clearly doesn’t make sense. Now why woukd an all knowing omnipotent omnipresent God want people to mark houses? Doesn’t he or his “blind???” death messenger already know what babies to kill? This makes this God so humanly invented rather than a one who knows everything. If it wasn’t God who killed the babies, then why on earth would God want to send a blind angel to accomplish this, the whole think sounds so dumb!

    Besides, really killing first born children? Read the sentence again and stop and reason for a second. Killing first born babies for whatever reason their parents have done is evilness, heartless, cruelty by definition and you dare and tell me “God loves me?”. How convincing

  13. Anonymous

    After reading the Bible many times, I still come away with the same basic question you ask. What I had to do was drop my presuppositional thoughts about the central theme of Christianity that I was taught, and look at what the text was actually trying to communicate to me. My first question was: “Why Jesus?”
    I think the Scriptures answer that question nicely. God, the Father, is the invisible God. No man has ever seen Him. The only God that anyone has ever seen is the Word of God, the Son of God, the Lord God, the Creator, or Jesus, the Anointed One.
    I don’t believe God sent Jesus to die. I believe He sent Jesus to be Israel’s king, and they killed Him. They refused His kingship in the wilderness, and they refused His kingship when He came in person.
    I believe Jesus is “only and example” to us, as the Way, the Truth, and the Life that we should emulate, mimic, or imitate, which, by the way, is the root meaning of the word “christian”… to be Christ-like.
    My next questions was:
    “Why can’t God simply forgive people?” (Why did He have to have a blood sacrifice to forgive?)
    I believe God is a God of forgiveness, and He wants us to be forgiving people. Again, God, in my mind, was Jesus in the Old Testament and the New Testament, and He was forgiving. He forgave many people without a blood sacrifice to appease His so-called wrath and anger.
    All through Scripture, God forgave those who turned to Him, were sorry for their sins, and forsook the wrong things they were doing. First, they had to know the things they were doing were wrong (in the eyes of God) before they needed to turn to Him. (Oh, by the way, not everyone is a sinner. And, we are not born sinners.)
    There are some righteous people in this world who have no idea who Jesus was or is. I firmly believe, the Lord Jesus knows them, and will do His best to encounter them. Once the meet Him, they’ll know exactly who He is. (In my mind, I believe it will be like God encountering Noah, Abraham, Moses, Job, and Daniel.) He is still doing that today. He did it with me.
    I am not ‘christ-like’ yet, but I want to be. I don’t call myself a Christian, but I hope others recognize that I am.
    Well, if you are interested in my answers, I will be happy to continue to post, but I don’t want every “bozo” in the world emailing me. So, I will be anonymous.

  14. Well, like you, Robert, I don’t believe any of it, and as you asked for Christians to supply you with a reasonable explanation I won’t offer.
    Yet, so far, no Christian commenter has offered a reasonable explanation, it’s all been pretty much polemic, which suggests they are not thinking for themselves merely regurgitating what they have been brought up to believe.
    Unfortunate, but this is what religion does to people. If it was open to any sort of reason there would be NO religion.
    Regards
    The Ark

  15. Sam

    Deuteronomy 24:16
    “Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.”

    basically christ would be contradicting the words of god/bible if he was to pay for our sins by him dying for us. Therefore he was appointed by god as the head of the church. The church being his body and christ as the head creating a single person who was to be sacrificed for our sins. That’s how he became the savior of his church

    Ephesians 1:22
    “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,”

    Ephesians 5:23
    “For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.”

  16. Joe

    If you really want to understand this, read Summa Theologica

  17. Pingback: Did Jesus Really Rise From The Dead? | Robert Nielsen

  18. Rafael Lara

    First of all Joseph was my father. Maria and Joseph did have sex but to avoid getting stone to death they deinied it to the fullest. Let this be understood ,when God brings two flesh into one thay are merried by Gods law. When the Govermant of Rome made up thier man made law if anyone was to break that man made law the punishmant was death even though it was not even a sin in God law.

  19. kevin

    John 3:16 states god loved the world soo much he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins that everyone exercising faith in him might not perish but gain everlasting life. This is from the holy scriptures found in any Jehovah’s witness bible . Also the truth will prove true to its power ,those teaching falsely have already being judged..try attending the kingdom hall of jw I guarantee anyone with likeness of the light will be amazed. The first few times I attended I actually felt great .

  20. Sam

    I hope I’m not too late here… I see a lot of terrible answers to your very good question. This is the simplest way to understand salvation through Christ

    Picture an empty balance scale
    it is perfectly balanced because it is empty
    then add something to it.
    it is now unbalanced right?
    now if you remove what you had added to it, what happens?
    The scale becomes empty, clean, perfectly balanced again.

    First you have to believe God is real and that He created Adam. If you don’t believe in God then my explanation wont be coherent to you.
    Here we go:
    Adam was created perfect and sinless
    There was no death, Adam would live forever
    Adam sinned
    through Adam’s sin death entered the world ( death meaning transition to another life separate from God, not and end to existence)
    death and sin could then affect all of Adam’s children

    Here comes your answer,

    Picture the same scale
    the scale is balanced and empty
    When Adam, the perfect human sinned, the scale went off balance
    A regular human can’t balance the scale because their lives aren’t perfect, they are affected by Adam’s sin. (You need a perfect life to equate a perfect life)
    (Jesus is perfect though because he is not born from a man. He is born of God. God does not necessarily need to have “sex” with Mary, Jesus’s mother, because he is God, if you believe he can create a universe, then you have to believe he can create a sperm and put it on Mary’s egg. God has shown that He is good at miracles in the past.)

    Now back to the scale!
    The scale is offset because 1 perfect person ( adam) has offset it with sin
    When Jesus gave his perfect life, he balanced the scales.
    It was like he removed ADAM’S SIN from the scales.
    Because of that, we no longer have to worry about sin causing death for us.

    All that God asks of us to receive the price he as already payed is that we acknowledge what he did for us, and ask for forgiveness for our sins that we have committed.

    I really hope i could be of some help. let me know if you have more questions.

    • Sam

      and for the record, I am not the Sam from earlier that just throws out random bible verses.

      Why would he try to teach you using a tool that you arent even familiar with? That’s just illogical. Like writing a book on how to read. you wouldn’t have asked the questions if you understood the answer. haha.

      • Sam

        I would teach him from the bible because that’s where my religion gets its answer from. But hey if your religion allow you to formulate your own opinion regarding the subject rather than what’s stated In the bible which is the truth (no need to add or subtract) go ahead. Opinion is like ……. You know what, everybody has one.

        • Sam

          everyone could formulate an opinion but only few could understand the truth. Your opinion is great but where did you get your opinion from? The bible? Well then tell us what the bible says! We don’t need you to middle man that’s what Jesus is for to “mediate”

    • Although you meant well, you actually dug yourself a deeper hole. You see the story of Adam and Eve is ficticious. Few Christians still take it literally. In fact the only reason I haven’t pointed out the many flaws in the story is because it would be too easy. So if the only reason that Jesus died is because of Adam and Eve, then there was no reason for Jesus to die.

      Also in your analogy you make the scales sound neutral. In fact it is God who is punishing humanity for Adam and God who sends Jesus (who is also God) to counter balance the sin. So God is sacrificing himself, to himself, in order to absolve a curse that he himself put on. I’m sorry but that doesn’t make any sense to me.

      • Sam

        Actually Robert jesus is not considered as god as per bible as per Jesus himself. Everyone knows him as the “son of god” but yet everyone wants to create their own idea of who he is. In that sentence alone “son of god” not “son the god”

        Some verses to back it so you know it’s not my opinion

        John 17:3
        Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

        John 17:1
        After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you”

        • Then explain the Trinity. I thought the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were one?

          • Sam

            No biblical basis and contradicts the bible.

            Deuteronomy 39:29
            “Look now! I AM, and there is NO OTHER god besides me. I myself cause death and I sustain life; I wound severely and I also heal; from my power no one can deliver.”

            Isaiah 45:5
            “I am the LORD, and there is NO OTHER; BESIDES ME THERE IS NO GOD. I will gird you, though you have not known Me”

            • Well first of all those quotes are from the Old Testament before anyone ever thought of Jesus. Second of all are you telling me that mainstream Christianity (or is it just the Catholic Church) is wrong about one of its main teachings? Surely someone would have noticed before now

              • Sam

                You would think. But there’s an answer to that as well

                John8:47
                “Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

                Since we’re are on the subject of seeing or understanding, this one is pretty clear but yet not everyone is following it. Let me know if you SEE it

                Thou shalt NOT make unto thee any GRAVEN IMAGES, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt NOT BOW down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)

  21. T-J

    I may be barking up the wrong tree entiely but the way I see it Jesus had to die for the holy spirit to be. I feel that the holy spirit is sort of like your concience. it let’s you know when you are thinking wrong things. it is in everyone and even if you have not known Jesus from your upbringing the holy spirit is there inside you guiding you in what is right and wrong. how can you know about something you don’t know? how can you argue about something that is not.

  22. LYNN LINSELL

    wow its been so great reading from u all and as a christian i have been so blessed .the issue is this in the old testament the jews presented a goat on which their sins were transfered to and only the priest had the right to do the transfer and to me Jesus took the sins of the world on him at the Jordan river where he was baptist .John the baptist was a priest and in the Jordan the sins of the world was transfered to Jesus his dead on the cross was the final stage were he was offered as a sin offering and also a burnt offering .well this is my contribution

    • Tricia

      I found this while searching the Internet for the answer. I wanted to know what it really meant for Jesus to have died for our sins. Does him dying mean that only if a person accepts him specially as the savior they can be saved? Does it mean what used to be sin has changed? And what about the Holy Ghost? The comments on this were helpful, and although I don’t agree with every opinion it was nice to read them. My contribution is as follows: I think that a person (Jesus) dying for something as purely thought of as wanting to save others is such an act of unwarranted compassion that it could make some sort of impact. I do not believe that that means that you can do whatever, believe in Jesus still, and come out clean, so that being said, I find the power in Jesus’s sacrifice to rewrite sin. In the Old Testament, sin was clean cut and God was a more ruthless sort of character. In Jesus, God becomes a beloved father more than a punishing ruler. Jesus makes his stand on that idea of God with those ideals, and in that, I suppose that could mean that the old sin is replaced by things contradicting these ideal’s of Jesus’s God. Accepting this sacrifice and asking for forgiveness now would become acknowledging a change in laws in a way perhaps and asking for forgiveness for new sins. This goes back to the mentioning of the Holy Spirit, something that I understand is apart of our blueprints now. In our hearts and souls, there lay apart of the grace and power of God and Jesus’s sacrifice. If it is in everyone, does that mean that everyone can reach ‘salvation’ regardless of their religion, if the truth was inside them all along. Or is the truth present in many forms then, as man presents ideals based on the inner voice, or the soul. So then, does that just mean that our inner emotions, our conscience, our thoughts, our being, our souls, are what we reach salvation by because of the ideals present in a selfless sacrifice and not due to any particular instance. Just the fact of a sacrifice, whether of not Jesus, holding power. The grace of something given but not deserved. Is that was saves us, is it not that which is important? The soul inside, ourselves, the thing that guides our desicions, whatever ideals it was originally modeled after, is that important? Is it worth arguing over whether it was only Jesus or just the thought of that sort of sacrifice that gives power to salvation? Either way, the truth is the truth. No matter what anyone thinks or believes. I hope I contributed in some way rather than just sounding self-righteous and incoherent.

  23. Sean

    It didn’t, it’s part of the nonsense. Jesus supposedly absolved us of sin… But only if you follow Jesus. God could have simply willed sin away, which would have taken far less energy than creating all of existence, but I guess sending yourself to Earth as a mortal knowing you’re going to be tortured and crucified makes more sense if you’re God. BTW sorry other 2/3 of the world population but it’s a burning lake of fire for all eternity for you.

  24. tina

    sorry what a load of shit, so ur telling me if i sacrifise a animal to god my sins will go away? bullshit what a stupid thing to belive this isnt the nature of god this is satanic ritual straght from the dark ages ur doing a ritual like they did ib olden days this is a trick to get u to covertly worship annunaki gods jesus was killed by romans, wake up do ur research idiots

  25. tina

    haha u realy think god wants u to kill a inocent animal? so u can be cleansed? do u realy belive that your sins can be transferd to another inocent creature? u realy belive some byllshit, why dont you try killing oh sorry i mean sacraficing another person? see how far that gets you

  26. tina

    chrisanity is a religion created not by jesus but buy roman cathlic, jesus was used as a pawn, to promote a religion that he would never encourage, it has its roots in paganism which was around long before jesus, 25th of december isnt jesues birthday it is the celebration of the sun god that has nothing ti do with him. the winter solace ends 21st and after3 days the sun is born again thats where the 3 days idea comea from, dont belive me di yourself a f avour look it up

    • Jayson

      The devil is cunning and smart. He knows the bible from cover to cover in his attempt to overthrow mankind. He knew the son of God was coming. he would even go so far to have created the worship of this sun god to take praise away from God and to create disbelief in Jesus Christ as you have. The truth will only set you free. and i can promise you whether you believe in Jesus or not or what he did he still believes in you. Such is the love of God for us. Jesus was thinking of you and me, with every whip that beat em, knowing full well we’d still go nah, I don’t really need him. But like a Father, he couldn’t bare his children to not be free
      So he thought up that tree, paid our fee, for specs of dirt like you and me.
      I hope you find the truth before it is too late.
      God bless you in abundance.

  27. K-psh

    I read all the comments and you can tell which ones are just spitting out what they were taught in a church, not by the research they do for themselves. “God Loves EVERYONE, and because he does he is going to kill innocent children and make you sacrifice animals so you can be saved” BULL!!!!! The bible is a book written by HUMANS! Humans make mistakes every single day, could it be that MAYBE after thousands of years that this story got misconstrued? I believe the story of Jesus was true, not to the effect that he “Died for our sins”, because if you really sit back and look at it, it doesnt make any sense at all. Do some research people, dont just indulge into that little book and believe EVERYTHING you hear in church. Its not all true.

  28. Robert, I stumbled upon your question and wanted to make an attempt at answering it even though it’s been posted for a while. It took a lot of research but it was well worth it because it sharpened my understanding and strengthened my beliefs as well. I hope I was able to answer all of your questions clearly. 
    Question:
    The central belief of Christianity is that God sent his only son Jesus to die on the cross for us and by doing so freed the world from sin. But how does that work? How does Jesus’ death take away my sin? Especially as I had not even committed the sin at the time, nor had I even been born. How can one person save the whole world?
    ANSWER:
    The origin of sin.
    Here’s a little history first on the origin of sin. Sin was first introduced in the universe by satan the devil. He was once a good angel in heaven created to reflect God’s glory and bring praise to Him by carrying out His will. However, he turned bad by rebelling against his father, Jehovah God (1 John 3:8) thus becoming satan the devil (satan means adversary and devil means slanderer). This rebellious, wicked and manipulative spirit creature was present when God created the earth and the first perfect human pair, Adam and Eve. Evidently satan heard God tell Adam and Eve to have lots of children to populate the earth and extend the boundaries of the garden in Eden all over the planet, thus turning the earth into one big paradise. (Genesis 1: 27,28) He also heard God command Adam and Eve not to eat of the forbidden tree or else they would lose the blessings of perfection and die. (Genesis 2: 16, 17) Satan knew that if Adam and Eve obeyed God, the earth would be filled with perfect people who loved and worshiped God. He became jealous of that and wanted to stop God from receiving the love and worship He deserves. So he came up with a plan to use lies and tricks to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God so that they and their offspring would die as God had warned. To implement his plan, he left heaven, came to the earth, and used a snake to play on Eve’s selfish desire which caused her to partake of the forbidden tree. After she ate the fruit, she gave some to her husband Adam and be began eating from it too. Once Adam made the decision to join his wife in rebelling against God, God pronounced them both sinners and they received the punishment of death. Satan’s target was Adam even though he deceived Eve since he knew that Adam was the originator of the human family and the buck stopped with him. Since Adam and Eve no longer had the benefits of their relationship with God, they became separated from God, lost their perfect bodies and eventually got sick, grew old and died.
    How we became sinners.
    Since the rest of the human population was born after Adam and Eve disobeyed God, their condemnation to sin and death was passed onto us – their offspring. That is why we are born sinners, grow old and eventually die. We inherited this defect of sin and the judgment of death from the progenitor of the human family, Adam. (Genesis 3:17-19; Romans 5:12)

    The bible at Romans 5:12 tells us that it was “through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” That one man was Adam. Even though both Adam and Eve disobeyed God, it was the actions of Adam that led to the condemnation of sin and death, not only themselves, but to all humanity (1 Titus 2:14; Genesis 3:7-12). According to the publication Insight on the Scriptures, some have explained this as meaning that all of Adam’s future offspring shared in Adam’s initial act of sin because, as their family head, he represented them and thereby made them, in effect, participants with him in his sin. The apostle Paul, however, speaks of death as ‘spreading’ to all men, which implies a progressive rather than a simultaneous effect on Adam’s descendants. Additionally, the apostle goes on to speak of death as ruling as king “from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam” (Romans 5:14). Adam’s sin is rightly called a “transgression” since it was an overstepping of a stated law, an express command of God to him. Also, when Adam sinned, it was of his own free choice, as a perfect human who was free from disabilities. Clearly his offspring have never enjoyed that state of perfection. So, these factors seem out of harmony with the view that ‘when Adam sinned, all of his as yet unborn descendants sinned with him.’ For all of Adam’s descendants to be held accountable would require some expression of will on their part as to having him as their family head. Yet none of them in reality willed to be born of him, their birth into the Adamic line resulting from the fleshly will of their parents. (John 1:13)
    The evidence, then, points to a passing on of sin from Adam to succeeding generations as a result of the recognized law of heredity. This is evidently what the psalmist refers to in saying: “With error I was brought forth with birth pains, and in sin my mother conceived me” (Psalms 51:5). Sin, along with its consequences, entered and spread to all the human species not merely because Adam was the family head of the species but because he, not Eve, was its progenitor, or human life source. From him, as well as from Eve, his offspring would inescapably inherit not merely physical characteristics but also personality traits, including the inclination toward sin. Compare 1 Corinthians 15: 22, 48,49.
    This sinful state that we have inherited causes us to be offenders or enemies of God since his law has been and is being violated by us, thus placing us in a state of disharmony with our Creator, Jehovah God. This has resulted in a damaged relationship with Him causing us to be separated from Him. (James 4:4) (Insight) All of this prevents us from perfectly reflecting God’s glory by acting in His image and likeness as He originally intended. Since our relationship with God has been damaged, this has had a trickle-down effect on the rest of God’s earthly creations resulting in enormous consequences of evil not only to ourselves but to the natural environment and the animals. (Insight 964)
    History of Sacrifices and How Christ’s Ransom Can Save Us
    Since the offspring of Adam and Eve are born sinners, that is offenders to God, the Almighty could have just written off the human family as a lost cause or He could have simply started over. However, to maintain His holiness as a God of justice who carries out His own laws and as a demonstration of His great love and mercy, He made provisions to reconcile the offspring of Adam and Eve back to Himself so that they could escape this justly imposed sentence of death. (Psalms 33:5)
    One provision was the designation of animal sacrifices, presented alone or with other offerings, to cover sins. Since the word sacrifice means to surrender, or permit injury or disadvantage to, for the sake of something else, an animal sacrifice would allow a person to appeal to God’s mercy and offer a substitute for his/her own life, according to the type of sin committed. In effect the life of the animal was given in exchange for the life of the sinner. Its blood made atonement on God’s altar, to the extent that it could, since only human blood can fully atone for sins. These types of sacrifices were also offered to purify the altar, give thanks or praise to God, and make atonement for the sins of others. If the sacrifice was acceptable to God, He would allow approach to Him in prayer and grant the request for favor and forgiveness for sin. The earliest demonstration of this ancient sacrificial system began when Adam’s oldest son Cain presented firstfruits of the ground to God and when Adam’s younger son Abel presented firstlings of his flock. Later on, Noah, on coming out of the ark, offered to God a thanksgiving sacrifice that was pleasing to the Almighty as a “restful odor.” As a result, God made the rainbow covenant with Noah and his family. (Genesis 8:18-22; 9:8-16) Further reading in the bible discusses the offerings of faithful patriarchs such as Job and Abraham as well as those of the Israelite priests.
    The most notable and significant provision that God made, however, is the ransom of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ as was foreshadowed by Abrahams’ attempt to offer up his son Isaac at Jehovah’s direction. Jesus Christ’s sacrifice replaced the ancient sacrificial system because, unlike animal sacrifices which represented only a symbolic or token covering for sins, Christ’s blood has redemptive qualities which carries far greater significance.
    The basic idea of a ransom is a price that covers (as in payment for damages or to satisfy justice) and “redemption” emphasizes the releasing accomplished as a result of the ransom paid. Since any imbalance of justice is displeasing to God, as well as to humans, a ransom had to be paid to satisfy God’s demands of justice and balance matters out so that sinners could be reconciled to God. A ransom could also have the additional effect of averting or quelling anger. Because Jesus Christ was the human equivalent of Adam, a perfect human son of God, only He could adequately satisfy God’s demands for justice and avert or quell His anger. By sacrificing His perfect human life in flawless obedience to God, unlike the disobedience of Adam, Jesus paid the price for Adam’s sin and brought hope to Adam’s offspring. This hope is the gift of forgiveness for our sins (a pardon for criminal offenders of God) and in the future, everlasting life in perfection. However, we can only get these blessings of forgiveness, perfection and everlasting life if we exercise faith in Christ’s ransom, repent from our sins, and show that we love God by striving to do our very best to live by His standards. (John 3:16) For willful sinners, Christ’s ransom does not apply (Hebrews 10: 26, 27). (Insight 761)
    Question: If we are removed from sin, does that mean no one goes to Hell?
    Answer:
    No. We still go to hell. But you have to understand the meaning of the word “hell”. The Greek word for hell is hai’des which means the common grave of mankind. It is not a place inhabited by demons who eternally torment the wicked as some believe. The wicked are definitely punished, but not in hell. The bible at Acts 2:31, 32 says that Jesus Christ was in hell (hai’des) and he did not sin so obviously hell is not a place of torment but rather the common grave of mankind.
    Jesus Christ removed sin in that He released humankind from the condemnation to everlasting death as a result of the sin we ‘inherited’ from Adam and Eve. However, we are still sinners. When we commit sins, we must still face the consequences. But thanks to God’s love and Jesus Christ ransomed life, we now can be forgiven for our sins as long as we repent, turnaround and do our very best to live by God’s standards. Then when we die, we have the hope of being resurrected. For those who deliberately continue sinning after they have been taught God’s standards, Christ’s ransom does not apply. (Hebrews 10:26)
    Question: The strange thing about God is that nobody really knows who/what it is (which is why it is weird so many worship him). Sometimes it is given human features like emotions, a gender and speech. Humans are even supposedly made in God’s image. On the other hand God is often described as incorporeal (“without the nature of a body or substance”), particularly in debates regarding the creation of the universe. God is often described as not being subject to the laws of science as it does not have a physical or material existence. Neither of these make much sense, as God clearly is not human, as it possess powers that no human has. But what is the difference between a spirit that cannot be directly seen, heard, felt, or detected by any sense, any something that does not exist?
    Answer.
    You are correct that God does not have a physical or material form. The bible tells us clearly that “God is a Spirit and those worshipping Him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24) As a Spirit, He is invisible to human eyes in much the same way the wind is invisible, but we can still feel it and see its powerful effects. (Colossians 1:14) In a similar way, although we cannot see God, his “invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even His eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable.” (Romans 1:20) However, unlike that impersonal, bodiless force of wind as mentioned earlier, the bible speaks of God as an individual with a personal name, Jehovah. (Matthew 6: 9, 10; Psalms 83:18)
    As a Spirit, any description of God’s likeness in human terms, such as emotions, gender and speech, is purely for our benefit and are not to be taken literally. If God were to describe himself to us in spirit terms that would be like trying to explain calculus to a person who only has an elementary understanding of math. That is why these figurative descriptors, called anthromorphins, are necessary. They helps us to relate to God from a human standpoint so that we can learn who God is and develop a close personal relationship with Him as He desires us to. (James 4:8; Acts 17:27; Zephaniah 2:3) For example, there are many passages in the bible that refer to God’s figurative eyes, ears, feet, hands, fingers, nose, face and heart. If we could not relate to God as one having feelings or physical characteristics similar to ours, it would be difficult for us to comprehend and benefit from bible passages such this: “For the eyes of Jehovah are upon the righteous ones, and his ears are toward their supplication, but the face of Jehovah is against those doing bad things.” (1 Peter 3:12)
    When the bible says that man was created in God’s image, we should not conclude that God has a human form. Our being created in His image simply means that humans were created by God with the capacity to reflect God’s qualities such as love, kindness, wisdom, justice, and self-control. (Genesis 1:26)
    Also when the bible refers to God in the masculine gender as “He” or as “Father,” this should not be taken literally. Gender distinction is unique to physical creatures and is a linguistic device that reflects the limitations of human language to fully capture the essence of the Almighty God, Jehovah. The bible indicates that in the heavens “there is neither male nor female” since all are spirits and “flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven.” (Galatians 3: 26, 28; 1 Corinthians 15:50) Bible writers who understood the male role, simply used the masculine gender when referring to God because they recognized that when a male properly fulfilled his role, this was an appropriate reflection of God’s loving, fatherly interest in his earthly children. (Malachi 3: 17; Matthew 5: 45; Luke 11: 11-13) (What is Nature of God)
    Question: How can, God, who does not have a physical form, have a son? Children are made from sex between a man and woman. Can God have sex? Does he have to necessary organs? Mary apparently was a virgin, so how did it happen? Perhaps God created Jesus like it created Adam and Eve, but then Jesus isn’t that special.
    Answer:
    As the Almighty of the universe, Jehovah God’s power is limitless and beyond the scope of human minds to fathom. His ability to create life, including that of His Son, is not dependent on anything, including human organs. (Exodus 3:13-14). Jesus Christ came into existence as the sole direct creation of His Father, Jehovah without the help of any other creature or agency. That is why the bible at John 3:16 describes him as “the only begotten Son” of God.
    All other life, starting with that of the angels and later human beings, were created by God with the help of Jesus Christ. He is the only one of his kind, the chief of all the angels and the only one whom God used to bring into existence all other creation. That is why the bible calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation” by God. (Read Colossians 1:15, 16) This sets him apart from all other creation. (Insight 556) (Who is Jesus)
    God did not create Jesus Christ from the ‘dust of the ground’ the same way he created Adam and Eve. (Genesis 2:7) According to the book, What does the bible really teach? “Jehovah’s only-begotten Son willingly left heaven and came down to earth to live as a human. But you may wonder, ‘How was it possible for a spirit creature to be born as a human?’ To accomplish this, Jehovah performed a miracle. He used his powerful Holy Spirit to transfer the life of his firstborn Son from heaven into the womb of a Jewish virgin named Mary. No human father was involved. Mary thus gave birth to a perfect son and named him Jesus.” (Luke 1:30-35) Just think about this, if humans are able to achieve pregnancy by means of in vitro fertilization and then transfer that life into a womb, wouldn’t God be able to do even better? (Who is Jesus)
    Question: Christians are always telling me Jesus loves me and died for me. But how? I didn’t exist until 2,000 years later. How can Jesus love something that does not yet exist? How can you love something you don’t know or met? How can you love everyone on the planet simultaneously? Surely that means that love isn’t that special. If everyone has it, then it’s as special as having a nose. How can you die for something? My grandparents died, not for anything, but just because they were old.
    Answer:
    Jesus Christ was sent to the earth by His Father, Jehovah God who was the one that loved the world of mankind first, including those who were not yet born. Just think of it like a mother who loves her child or any children she may have in the future, even before they are born. If that is possible from a human standpoint, it is not even more possible from God’s standpoint?
    Since Jesus Christ loved and admired his father, he wanted to imitate His qualities including that of showing love for humans. You can liken that to the way a human son admires and wants to copy his father’s ways. Jesus Christ’s love for his Father also motivated him to obey God’s commandments, the greatest of which is to love God and the second greatest is to love your neighbor as yourself. (Matthew 22:36-40) Jesus Christ’s willingness to obey His Father’s voice by coming down to the earth and dying on behalf of sinners was proof that He not only loved God but that he loved us as well. In this way, God’s love was made perfect in Jesus. By sacrificing His perfect human life, Jesus became the bridge that fixed the relationship gap between sinners and God, caused by Adam’s disobedience. This made it possible for humans to establish a relationship with God again. What greater demonstration of love could there ever be?
    This scripture (1 John 4: 7-21) explains it all: “Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and gains the knowledge of God.8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.9 By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only‐begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him.10 The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent forth his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.
    11 Beloved ones, if this is how God loved us, then we are ourselves under obligation to love one another.12 At no time has anyone beheld God. If we continue loving one another, God remains in us and his love is made perfect in us.13 By this we gain the knowledge that we are remaining in union with him and he in union with us, because he has imparted his spirit to us.14 In addition, we ourselves have beheld and are bearing witness that the Father has sent forth his Son as Savior of the world.15 Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God.16 And we ourselves have come to know and have believed the love that God has in our case.
    God is love, and he that remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him.19 As for us, we love, because he first loved us. 20 If anyone makes the statement: “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen.21 And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also.
    Question: If my sins are washed does that mean I could do anything and not be punished in the afterlife? If it was only original sin that was removed, why did God give it to us in the first place? It’s not my fault Adam and Eve ate that apple, why would God punish the innocent? Does this not all amount to a human sacrifice?

    Jesus Christ’s death did not wash away your sins in the sense that you can do anything you want and not be punished. We will still face the consequences of our actions. Christ’s blood washed away the sentence of everlasting death that you would have gotten were it not for His sacrifice. God did not give sin to us, we simply inherited it. To be frank, God makes the laws and humans are supposed to obey them. When we disobey them, we become offenders to God and we receive His punishment. Jesus Christ’s death is the mercy God had on us which granted us a “pardon” from Adam and Eve’s crime against God since it is not our fault that we were born from disobedient ancestors. However, that did not erase the fact that we are still born imperfect and are prone to sin. The difference is now we have been given a chance to repent from our sins, ask for forgiveness and do our very best to live by God’s standards. Then God may forgive us and reward us with the same gifts He originally gave our ancestors, perfection and eternal life in an earthly paradise, as long as we stay loyal to Him. However, if we unrepentantly practice sin, the consequences are far worse and there is no mercy. The bible says, “For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.” (Hebrews 10:26)


    References
    Insight on the Scriptures. (1988). Brooklyn: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. International Bible Students Association. Retrieved October 2013
    The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition. (n.d.). Biblios. Retrieved 2013, from http://www.biblehub.com
    The Holy Bible: New World Translation (1984 ed.). (n.d.). Brooklyn: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.
    What Does the Bible Really Teach? (n.d.). Brooklyn, New York: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. Retrieved from http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/who-is-jesus-christ/
    What is the Nature of God? (n.d.). Brooklyn, New York: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. Retrieved from http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102008370

  29. xxeverettxx

    THE QUESTION WAS NOT A QUESTION OF CURIOSITY TO KNOW AND WANT TO BELIEVE. IT WAS A QUESTION OF THIS DONT MAKE SENSE AND IF YOU EXPLAIN, I STILL DONT BELIEVE. THE ANSWER THAT COMES RIGHT AFTER THE QUESTION WAS PERFECT. DONT SAY YOU NEVER HEARD THE GOSPEL…

  30. sinismyname

    Jesus died for our sins. But all is not over we were also instructed to follow 10 commandments only for those who abide with the covenant of morality and rightchiousness. For them only is the door open to view or grasp what is reality in a broad and molecular status of all that is living. Look in your heart to find what you seek, the workers are few but God is everything he is living.

  31. Jeremy

    Well I don’t believe like modern people do I have a more in depth concept of Christianity…. I believe when Jesus Christ was born that he took over his dying his blood meant we are covered it does not mean we can’t sin because we can but getting to your point on love how Jesus and God know you before you are even born is because your spirit lived with them you where sent to earth to be tested because after God was betrayed by Satan he needed a way to know who was really for him and really against him then it became hard for the Gentiles to believe in Jewish tradition so Jesus came down and became the sacrifice so we wouldn’t have to sacrifice something to God was having Jesus die for us in the beginning plan I don’t think so I don’t think Jesus himself knew until he was praying in the Garden of Gathseminie and I don’t think God chose that path till the last minute I believe now that Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven

  32. You asked how can Jesus love someone that has yet to be born. That’s simple, he knew you would be. Before our kids are born we always talk about if I had a child I woud love to like no other. Well God knows everything. I myself don’t believe that God loves everyone. To each its own, when God is ready for you, he will come and trust me you can’t fight it. Jesus real, as well as God!

    • Yep..now I’m convinced. All these ”unblogged” semi-anonymous commenters are all from the same God Club that band together and raid atheist blogs and leave long, tedious ”Jesus loves you comments”.

      And, moriahjw? Sheesh, that’s a comment? No, sir that is a perishing sermon. NO…scrub that. It’s a a damn treatise. Man, get yourself a publisher.

  33. AdrIan…after reading all the above I am more convinced than ever than you will never convinced anybody to think like you and to admit that things are not the way he things are. Did you ever try to convinced a priest after many years studying Religion that he is wrong and you are right?In my humble and probably the wrong way to look at Jesus life .Jesus was a preacher ,who tried to introduce new ideas like many influential preacher before him or after him as being the son of a God you and me will find the truth only after death.When we dye we have two destinations..: somewhere up there or nowhere down here…where else?

    • Jayson

      Blessed is he who has not seen yet believes. Maybe we shouldn’t question everything we don’t understand and just accept through worship. Our minds after all are too small to comprehend the thinking or actions of GOD. He created the entire universe with his words alone….the how? our human minds cannot begin to fathom.
      Like my favorite christian poet said: “He exchanged himself for us, absorbing all our sin. I mean God literally put on flesh, and do you see how we treated him? The ultimate war veteran, because he was killed for our freedom. Nonetheless, He was thinking of you and me, with every whip that beat em, knowing full well we’d still go nah, I don’t really need him. But like a Father, he couldn’t bare his children to not be free
      So he thought up that tree, paid our fee, for specs of dirt like you and me
      So my plea is let Him restore His proper place, I promise you He loves you right now. Just trust in His grace.”
      So trust in His grace, everything will become clearer as we grow stronger in our faith.

      • “Blessed is he who has not seen yet believes. Maybe we shouldn’t question everything we don’t understand and just accept through worship.”

        So we should just believe without evidence? Blessed is he who bases his beliefs on irrational prejudices? We should just blindly believe like mindless robots? Or we could think for ourselves and use our brains to examine the evidence and draw a logical conclusion.

        “I mean God literally put on flesh, and do you see how we treated him?”

        First of all there is no we. I didn’t have anything to do with it and to blame all of humanity for the actions of a handful of people 2000 years ago is just silly. Also if God was Jesus, was he not sacrificing himself to satisfy his own wrath? The crucifixion was to appease God’s judgement, but if Jesus was God then God was appeasing himself. How does that make any sense?

  34. Raulsky

    Back then, before the internet saved us just a few years ago, the bible wasn’t being questioned because just a few were reading it. There was always that saying, it’s possible for there to be a creator, and it was ok with everyone. Well now we can look for answers, find proof without spending years in a library, challenge things ourselves in a group every day.

    I have 3 kids, sent from myself and my wife which she has no other husband to complicate things, lol. We will all die for ourselves or maybe sacrifice so that others may be saved. Anyone could take his life so that his children may live, you see this from strangers, we would save humanity free from sin if that was the case.
    So it says, he killed us in a flood for being sinners, and made no changes to stop us from sinning again. He might as well flood us every time the time is right. A failed plan. He should have guarded the apple with the greatest of magic so that his original plan to fail would not fail.

  35. LLOYD NJIKHO

    if you think of God as an anthropomorphic being, then you have a long way to go. if you think you can fathom every knowledge of GOD then you are deceiving yourself. as a Christian i would be pretending if i say i have no questions about God, i would be lying to say i have answers to all the questionings nevertheless that does not make me doubt God. GOD does not have only one way of doing things, if he created Adam from the dust and us through procreation it does not mean that Jesus will be created from dust or procreation in fact you are not the one who suggested that people should be procreating and then they is no need for you to come up with questions whether God had a wife, for you even know how he created Adam. did he have a wife in creating Adam? what about the angels? “spiritual things are spiritually discerned” if you humble yourselves you will understand many of the biblical truths but if you want to be bigger than God, then forget it. if you think of God who does not think properly in HIS operation of things remain wise yourselves for you atheist think you are the only one who are rational, learned and all believes in Christianity insane.

    • Atheists don’t actually believe that believers in Christianity are insane( though no doubt some are) No, what many atheists believe is that belief in Christianity is insane.
      See the difference?

  36. Patrick

    Robert, your last string of questions: Also if God was Jesus, was God not sacrificing Godself to satisfy God’s own wrath? The crucifixion was to appease God’s judgement, but if Jesus was God then God was appeasing Godself. How does that make any sense?

    This has been somewhat addressed, but not (imho) with a proper modern theological lens. The appeasement, blood atonement theory you are referencing, and which many here are espousing, is a bit antiquated. Here is my best stab at a fresh view: for thousands of years, the “religious” way of atoning for sins was through sacrifice. When Jesus (a person of the trinity, God) came to earth he showed that this was not a proper way of understanding God. He gave the new commandment to “love your neighbor as yourself.” This love trumps all the religious law that came before it. But humanity didn’t like this very much. We like scapegoats. We like punishment. We want something to represent our sin so that we can feel good about it being forgiven. So Jesus (and by extension God) volunteered to jump into our “justice-machine” of sacrifice and die as the ultimate act of love. Jesus did this not because God needed it, but because we needed it. Jesus’ proclamation of forgiveness when he was living and the resurrection (a key point missing from a lot of this discussion) shows how God takes the ugly brokenness of humanity (the fact that we would kill our savior) and makes something beautiful. In sum, God used our (humanity’s) own sin to save us. And I think that’s pretty awesome.

    *sidebar* Most reputable scholarship no longer uses exclusive masculine pronouns for God. This is another antiquated convention. You weren’t the first and were probably just following what others on this thread were doing. I edited your questions to fit a new pronoun convention (not trying to patronize, just wanting to inform as you seem genuinely interested in this whole “God” thing). Another option is to alternate between masculine and feminine pronouns, but this reinforces the gender binary and is just generally confusing.

  37. Truth - God Is Real & Heaven is our future

    Hi Everyone,

    I’ve experienced the God of the heavens and the earth quite dramatically in the last couple of weeks.He is very very very REAL. Don’t try to understand the idea of him. Don’t even bother. It will blow your mind, he will blow your mind. I don’t know how I got there but I had an encounter in his presence and since then I’ve been pondering about him but it hurts my brain. Its futile.You can never understand him.WHAT!! you are in for a shock of your life.

    I’m a christian and have been for a long time and the
    way i reacted after this experience quite shocked me cos I’ve always believed in God but experiencing him like that completely blew me away…….. God says that if you search for him earnestly you will find him. Here’s my contribution to your question.

    His ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts. He is All knowing, All present, All powerful. He is the I AM. Doesn’t need an extension to those words. Just I AM.In that moment in his presence I understood why his name is so.

    The main word here is SIN. Sin seperates us from God. When God decided to create man, the devil got jealous and rebelled against him. He was God’s highest angel Lucifer 2nd in command. God gives everyone free will. So he threw him out of heaven. The devil is very jealous of mankind (because we are made in the image of God) so he tricked eve into eating the fruit so that she will be eternally damned to the same punishment as he is. She succumbed and here we are today!

    When eve ate the fruit she got kicked out of eden. So the devil rules this world.He is the author of sin and death. Gods laws are eternal, he is JUST and can’t have one punishment for one and a different one for another. The devil is going to be put in eternal death at some point for rebelling against God and this world will end then. He is going to try and take as much of mankind down with him as possible before the appointed time of his damnation and no one knows the time only God.

    God really loves mankind. Which is why he sent his only son to die for us. To make a way to reconcile mankind to himself and give us eternal life to prevent us from eternal death brought about by sin.
    When you believe in Jesus, God sees Jesus when you come to him as Jesus is blameless in his sight and never commited sin.

    For the forgiveness of sins there has to be shedding of blood. God is just. Justice has to be served where there is sin. Punishment has to be served. Jesus has paid the price for all of our sins by dying on the Cross of Calvary. He has carried the punishment for the sins of the entire race of mankind which is why it was such a brutal death. All we have to do is believe in him. He is our highpriest sitting by God interceeding for us.This is for all our past, present and future sins.

    Your goodness does not play a part. Our salvation is a FREE GIFT from God, it is by his grace not by your good or bad works. We are only restored to God through Jesus Christ otherwise we are condemned as the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. condemned to the same eternal death as lucifer for sinning. So Thank you JESUS ever so much.

    Because you have grace does not mean you can just keep sinning intentionally. Thats not grace God can see the intentions and the motives of your heart. He is All knowing and All present. He sends us his spirit once you receive Christ to teach us to be more like him.

    He is so Incredible I promise you. What he feels like it has not even entered your imagination. Promise. Hope this helps!!!! People please find out the truth for yourselves search for him if you haven’t found him. The devil is very cunning and will try everything to stop us and this great news. Stay blessed we have lots of hope. Exciting things to look forward to.

  38. Ronnie Bolling

    Christ never said he died for your sins; the Church/Roman Empire made all this up over 300 years after he died. Prior to this Christians would DIE before participating in acts of violence (like wars)…. fast forward to today’s doctrine of patriotism and suddenly killing is A-OK as long as your govt. condones it?
    If you want to know what Jesus REALLY taught, read the teachings of Buddha which have not be doctored. Or even better look inside yourself where the thing people try and limit by calling It “God” is always staring out through “your’ eyes. The error of the ages is looking without for what can only be found within. Namaste’

    “Faith must be based upon direct experience, not religious platitudes.”
    Swami Vivekananda

    • David

      Did Christ die for the sins of the world? I can only tell you what I have experienced. The answer is easy enough to find, but difficult to accept. Look inside yourself, and approach “God”. You will find the answer. Meditate upon the question by imagining every “sin” of the world and taking this collective sin upon yourself. That’s right – all the crappiest crap that humanity did and might dish out. The “Self” that can handle this is beyond your ego. You will probably feel unbearable compassion (akin to great sadness) but also unconditional love. Let go, open your heart and cry if you need to. In the process, your “small self” will undergo a form of death.

      Not to be flip, but this reminds me of the joke about the Dalai Lama and the New York hot dog vendor, where the vendor asks the Dalai Lama what he wants, and he answers “Make me one with everything.”

      Namasté

  39. ashley

    We are only here so we can die, aka leave here. God wants us to leave here. It’s only for a lesson. The bible is how God teaches us that we cannot be our best while on this earth, while in our material state. Jesus, an immaterial, or immortal being came into this physical realm, sort of how a diver goes into the ocean (a metaphorical realm) and left his blood here, which was actually “taken” or “forced” to be shed by mortal humans. Because He was selfless, he didn’t “owe” this realm anything. He reaped what He didn’t sew and now, there is an imbalance in this physical material realm, which gives allowance for selfish people (all people aka sinners, s.I.n. sewing into nature, which is selfishness and satisfaction of self) to escape the crooked world, which is crooked because of the unbalanced scale. The scale will be balanced again when all creation has been placed in order, and is unified through selflessness. Never stop praying for truth. I know its hard, but pray Gods spirit (nature) leads you to the truth Cuz u r sick of being confused and lied to, and fed a bunch of subjective points of view. Everything in this world is a shadow of the spirit world, the true realm and awareness we shall operate in in the future, and some now. I love you and never forget this.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s